[KnucklesSonic8]

I dont care about my GG stats.
*sigh*
I really don't know anymore.

If my non-GG stats aren't coming back, IM not coming back. Screw this.

[Rick_242]

To ks8:

For the record, I thought he was innocent a couple pages back when trying to prove him guilty made absolutely no sense, as in things didn't add up but, something told me to let other people handle it. Until decided to screw what everyone would think about me.

Also, your A and B is something I agree with.

On to the topic I guess:

Okay, cue Phoenix Wright music.

* Rick shot

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=2882.0
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=2874.0

Topics in which elecmouse101 was called out in. The first, was a mere typo in which he was forgiven.

One reason why he should be banned is knocked off.

The second was a calling out of mew22. Note that there was a suspicion that elecmouse and mew are the same people. If you would refer to:

http://www.youtube.com/elecmouse101

You would find videos of two people usually playing together. In the video description it is said that the other person is mew. Also note that this is elecmouse's account. This establishes that they are in fact not the same person.

Second reason why he should be banned is destroyed.

Now it is said that elecmouse is bsing. That is a problem. Why is it a problem? Not because he is bsing but rather that there is nothing on this forum that calls him out on it. I asked GerbilSoft about it and he said he was bsing Sonic Rush records.

TSC accepts photos as proof of records. That much is well known. Photo evidence was asked for elecmouse's records which was never provided. As an alternative however, we got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrTKiglH0-I

This video works just about as well as photo evidence and even though the quality is bad you can still see the times all of which are shoddy when ranked on the charts. Shoddy stats don't arouse much suspicion and are rarely called out on. I do not recall any first place records claimed by elecmouse which begs the question why bs was called out on him in the first place.

Last reason why he shouldn't have been banned this long is knocked off.

Note: Also seriously, wtf at ks8's stats being removed? He had videos of times he had achieved. At most his Game Gear should have been removed because it was established he did calculations wrong. Removing all of his stats was just stupid.

[elecmouse101]

To ks8:

For the record, I thought he was innocent a couple pages back when trying to prove him guilty made absolutely no sense, as in things didn't add up but, something told me to let other people handle it. Until decided to screw what everyone would think about me.

Also, your A and B is something I agree with.

On to the topic I guess:

Okay, cue Phoenix Wright music.

* Rick shot

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=2882.0
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=2874.0

Topics in which elecmouse101 was called out in. The first, was a mere typo in which he was forgiven.

One reason why he should be banned is knocked off.

The second was a calling out of mew22. Note that there was a suspicion that elecmouse and mew are the same people. If you would refer to:

http://www.youtube.com/elecmouse101

You would find videos of two people usually playing together. In the video description it is said that the other person is mew. Also note that this is elecmouse's account. This establishes that they are in fact not the same person.

Second reason why he should be banned is destroyed.

Now it is said that elecmouse is bsing. That is a problem. Why is it a problem? Not because he is bsing but rather that there is nothing on this forum that calls him out on it. I asked GerbilSoft about it and he said he was bsing Sonic Rush records.

TSC accepts photos as proof of records. That much is well known. Photo evidence was asked for elecmouse's records which was never provided. As an alternative however, we got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrTKiglH0-I

This video works just about as well as photo evidence and even though the quality is bad you can still see the times all of which are shoddy when ranked on the charts. Shoddy stats don't arouse much suspicion and are rarely called out on. I do not recall any first place records claimed by elecmouse which begs the question why bs was called out on him in the first place.

Last reason why he shouldn't have been banned this long is knocked off.

Note: Also seriously, wtf at ks8's stats being removed? He had videos of times he had achieved. At most his Game Gear should have been removed because it was established he did calculations wrong. Removing all of his stats was just stupid.

FINALLY! Someone on this site that makes perfect sense.

[Bilan]

It doesn't take a massively long time to resubmit stats if you're only typing them out from a save files.

Be glad you don't have to go redo them all like I did for Sonic 1

Granted that was my own fault but the point stands.

Also after the Great TSC Downtime of 2005 (TM) there were people resubmitting entire charts for multiple games, its really not as bad or as difficult/time consuming to do as youre making it out to be

EDIT: Rick makes a point (or several)

[elecmouse101]

It doesn't take a massively long time to resubmit stats if you're only typing them out from a save files.

Be glad you don't have to go redo them all like I did for Sonic 1

Granted that was my own fault but the point stands.

Also after the Great TSC Downtime of 2005 (TM) there were people resubmitting entire charts for multiple games, its really not as bad or as difficult/time consuming to do as youre making it out to be

KS8's main complaint is that he doesn't have Heroes, Sonic 06, or Rival anymore. He told me this through a Wiimail.

[Bilan]

Well unless I missed something he neglected to mention that in here which would've been nice to know about 30 seconds before I posted that.

Not 100% sure on this but theres a chance that if the time machine becomes functional again it could be used to go back to a time when his stats were still up, and he could copypasta them all across

Waiting on Gerbil to confirm/deny

[elecmouse101]

Well unless I missed something he neglected to mention that in here which would've been nice to know about 30 seconds before I posted that.

Not 100% sure on this but theres a chance that if the time machine becomes functional again it could be used to go back to a time when his stats were still up, and he could copypasta them all across

Waiting on Gerbil to confirm/deny

That actually might work.

Hopefully...

[Shadow Jacky]

Yeah Rick kinda late on these findings.  I too don't get too caught up in these shenanigans only because I really don't know the person, said person was annoying, or the admins know enough as is.

Elecmouse should understand that in the past there have been those that would go to such lengths just to not get banned when suspicion arises.  I may be confusing you with another user who also provided photos for proof, but said photos were "shopped" and said user was dealt with.  Now with Mew22, hell I thought you two were the same people because it was suspicious that when his name pops up, he appears right on cue.  I always wondered why he never acted on his own accord or defended you (while you were being considered to be banned and after said ban).

I've been helping Ks8 as much as I could, but this "And SJ, it seems like you're starting to realize this." its kinda hard when you don't tell me everything.  I can only go by with what you tell me and I still don't know everything that goes on in your life, but this makes it feel you have and I'm a big idiot in which it took me months to "finally" realize your predicament.  I assume this is to your personal life more than just the site which I can understand if you don't want to share that with me.

Elecmouse speaks the truth about Ks8 not being able to resubmit everything because he doesn't have said games anymore.

If anything this might have been a mistake and the admins acted too hastily.  Elecmouse seems he just made up his #1 reason because he's couldn't come up with anything better, and his 2nd reason is because of the whole IP sharing thing (Since Mew22 is banned, Elecmouse can't come back...is that it?).  If there is another topic concerning this, as I just went through what Rick had shown and this topic's earlier pages, then maybe this was unfair.  All I had gotten was that Elecmouse and Mew22 shared the same IP, one of them submitted BS, one of them tried to provide proof for potential BS (which was troubling), proof was laid out and nothing was said about it after.  Other than that, it might just be the case of reason #2 and blame Mew for screwing you over or not allow him to come here anymore.

P.S.  I know this is late, but some things came up when I was typing this.

[elecmouse101]

I just want to make this clear. mew22 does not use the same IP address as me. It is just a rumour. They thought we were the same people cause we were in the same IP range.

[GerbilSoft]

I'll attempt to get Time Machine kinda working sometime this weekend so KS8 can get his stats again.

[elecmouse101]

I'll attempt to get Time Machine kinda working sometime this weekend so KS8 can get his stats again.

Thank you

[Shadow Jacky]

I just want to make this clear. mew22 does not use the same IP address as me. It is just a rumour. They thought we were the same people cause we were in the same IP range.

these IP matches don't make themselves up.  if you were just in the same range, wouldn't you both have different IP addresses?

[Rick_242]

Yeah I was a bit late. I usually go with what people say so it gets kinda hard to break away and say, "wait what," due to me wondering what might happen if I do break away from the general flow of things and people. I had planned to post this a lot sooner but, we had a downtime so I couldn't post it and by the time the server got back up I forgot about this topic.

[yse]

Er, I'm fucking confused now.

See, up until now, what I've been hearing is that we had undeniable, mathematical proof that elecmouse and mew22 were BSing. Upon looking over the old topics, it appears that was only true for mew22, and elecmouse actually has a proof video? Where the hell was I when all this happened?

I'm gonna leave this one on the table, because, unlike with ks8 where I knew it was badly handled, in this case I honestly have no clue.

EDIT: ks8, since TSC doesn't recognise the stats of those players removed from the site, they were all removed. It has now come to light that restoring stats (since a change in database structure) is a hell of a lot harder than it used to be. Once upon a time "!unsuspend knuckles_sonic8" would've done the job... :/

[elecmouse101]

I just want to make this clear. mew22 does not use the same IP address as me. It is just a rumour. They thought we were the same people cause we were in the same IP range.

these IP matches don't make themselves up.  if you were just in the same range, wouldn't you both have different IP addresses?

That's the thing. It's not an IP match. It was just a rumour.

[GerbilSoft]

KS8: I fixed up some Time Machine functions (notably, member pages) and enabled Time Machine for you. Set your TM to 3/13/08 and get your stats. Note that the Overall and Total classes are apparently inaccurate due to a bug I haven't been able to track down yet, and only a few types of pages in /members/ are working right now.

Your user profile and individual game stat pages should be working. Also, make sure you're using Complete mode, as I haven't fixed Compact mode to work with Time Machine yet.

[elecmouse101]

KS8: I fixed up some Time Machine functions (notably, member pages) and enabled Time Machine for you. Set your TM to 3/13/08 and get your stats. Note that the Overall and Total classes are apparently inaccurate due to a bug I haven't been able to track down yet, and only a few types of pages in /members/ are working right now.

Your user profile and individual game stat pages should be working. Also, make sure you're using Complete mode, as I haven't fixed Compact mode to work with Time Machine yet.

You sure you fixed it? It doesn't work for me. Maybe it just doesn't work on the Wii.

Edit: Oh it only works for him? Nevermind then.

[GerbilSoft]

You're not KS8. I'm currently enabling it for individual players on a case-by-case basis.

[elecmouse101]

I said nevermind. No one ever reads the edits.

FYI I Wiimailed him so he'll probably see it tomorrow.

[Shadow Jacky]

I said nevermind. No one ever reads the edits.

same way you fail to read warnings?

also stop calling it a rumor when it's fact.

[KnucklesSonic8]

Rick: Thank you for that. Your final statement about how STUPID this is,..

I'll try the TM...

Em: I was very upset. Theres MUCH MORE to this than simply b/c of not having Heroes, S06 and Rivals. And RPG, further evidence you guys dont care: I've mentioned that MANY times. <_< *sigh*

[KnucklesSonic8]

Thank you. It worked (sorta). But I'm still not in the least bit happy about this.

And mike: Thats no excuse. Removing ALL my stats that weren't even in flippin question was STUPID but I've gotten used to that.

/banned for expressing one's self <_<

[yse]

Of course it's no excuse. But you can either live with that and move on, or you can continue to whinge to me and achieve nothing.

[douglas]

You should also be aware that we're taking steps to ensure that this sort of silliness doesn't happen again, or if it does, that the process is public and accountable.

For what it's worth, welcome back KS8 :)

[Bilan]

I have not said at any point in this topic "Hey I dont care", and neither has anyone else.

All I have said was that youre overreacting completely to having to re-enter stats.

Bitching that WE dont care because YOU dont have some of the games anymore is not viable after a) we have already unbanned you and b) when you DONT TELL US THIS PRIOR TO STATING THAT STAT RE-ENTRY DOES NOT TAKE LONG. And c) Gerbil went and specifically went and fixed the time machine JUST FOR YOU AND YOUR OLD PAGES ONLY so that you can go and get said old stats anyway.

There I think that rant has done me good.

Sorry if this upsets/annoys you ks8 but Im probably speaking for more than myself after youre reaction above here.

[elecmouse101]

I said nevermind. No one ever reads the edits.

same way you fail to read warnings?

also stop calling it a rumor when it's fact.

Stop calling it a fact when it's a rumour.

How is it possible if we both use are own seperate connection.

Edit: If you mean those warnings on the old topics that I heard so much about, I don't get them. Maybe it's a glitch on the Wii's Internet, but it doesn't work.

[GerbilSoft]

Time Machine updates: I've fixed most of the issues in Complete View, so it should now show the correct ranks for Overall classes. Compact View still hasn't been updated.

Also, I fixed the member class view so it cuts off ranksnaps that are after the time machine setting. (Before, it'd cut off stats from after the time machine setting, but not ranksnaps, so you'd see additional rankings that were from after the time machine setting.)

[Rick_242]

RPG allow me address your points.

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3450.msg35409#msg35409

He's said it before. Which means he said it before your stat re-entry doesn't take long comment although, he didn't say it here he really can't since he comes online once in a blue moon and probably felt joy for being unbanned? I can't make much of a case for this but, just some tidbits.

I completely agree with you about Gerbil fixing the time machine just for him but, thats all it is. Only Gerbil is making amends towards ks8.

(To people in general)

The entire issue that ks8 seems to say a lot is that you guys don't care. I'm going to go ahead and say that that is a load of crap...

... if it weren't true.

Okay guys just stop thinking and see it how I'm about to show you and think back to what you thought back then (note I could go into how the general chatroom reacted months ago whenever ks8 was brought up but I won't).

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3229.0

Go back to April and you'll notice this topic. Read through the entire topic and notice the last post of the topic. April 3rd. Lets go forward one month shall we?

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3450.0

May 24. In the entire span of one month and 21 days, nobody raised a question to ks8's banning which begs one question. Was his banning really badly handled? The answer is of course yes. But, at that time, did you really think it was badly handled? No one raises a question or doubt about ks8's banning until Shadowfan makes that topic almost two months after ks8's banning.

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3450.msg35530#msg35530

Read RPG's post. Now read Stefan's post which is below his. While RPG didn't vote for any of the no options he did grain the topic with logic on why ks8 would remain banned. To be honest, I agree completely with RPG's post as does a moderator (or would be at the time) and it remains the sole reason why ks8 was banned for as long as he was.

Freeze.

What did you just think? If you agreed with what I just said then it says a thing or two about you. Let's turn our attention to this particular sentence made by Rolken:

I believe you, but it's more important that the competitors can believe you.

If you wish to view its source, its here: http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3229.msg34236#msg34236

While I'm not going to do a backround check on Rolken, I am going to say that he is the most sensible person here. I also know that you agree with me too.

Put that little statement next to RPG's post and try making sense out of that. Who is more in the right, RPG or Rolken? The answer is obviously Rolken. Even Shadowfan mentioned Rolken's statement but the topic was abandoned right after he said that. Looking back at the topic again I can sympathize that listening to people who are basically morons is bad. However, look at the voting. Here are the results:

No: 1
Yes: 12
Yes if he does not calculate scores: 2

Total No: 1
Total yes: 14

What this is telling me is that 14 morons voted yes and were ignored which left ks8 banned for as long as he was. At most there were 6 or 7 morons at that time while the rest of the voters were pretty much accepted by TSC.

While ks8 is unbanned now, would he really have been unbanned if this topic was not created? I think you know the answer.

My next question, where does this leave us? Does it leave us with an incapable staff that lets its own personal feelings affects its decisions? Does it leave us with a real sign that TSC is dieing? Does it leave us with a large mistake made on our parts that would not have come to light if this topic did not happen?

Now I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking right now which is that I'm expecting posts that will try to save face or try and refute some points. While some points may be refuted, you can not deny that it hits a mark or two.

[Selphos]

Wow, Rick, that's definitely... something to think about. My head is now swimming with all sorts of shit.

Which doesn't help the fact that it's independence day.

*ahem* But yes, the man is right. Very few people appeared to care about ks8's situation, and very few people did anything about it.

[Stefan]

A few things, fairly unrelated.

a.) GerbilSoft just told me in irc that elecmouse and mew22 only had the same ip block; as such, there was no evidence twoards their being the same person except accidentally misinterpreted numbers.
b.) Damnit, KS8, I can understand if you're upset.  However, you have multiple moderators defending your unbanning, you had gerbilsoft fix a site capability FOR YOU AND YOU ALONE, you had fairly unanimous agreement that your situation was handled poorly, you had -everything- TSC could give you to compensate. And you continued to complain. This is probably adding logs to the fire, but can you seriossly let it go? or keep your anger to yourself? Continually bitching to us because of something we have already admitted to being wrong about does nothing except angering everyone, yourself included.
c.) Why is elecmouse still banned?
d.) In response you rick, you feel you have evidence that TSC is falling apart. there are a few things
1.) There has been administrative bias for years (sonicandamy, xebra). If the ks8 situation proves tsc is falling apart, tsc has been falling apart since its conception.
2.) We are taking many steps to regulate bannings. We are instituting a forum that will keep a record of bannings, with reasons for and against keeping x person banned. If there is a clear mistake, we will have such an organized folder that we can immediately fix it.
3.) Rolken is a smart guy. Rolken is a very informed guy.

Rolken is -not- a perfect guy.

It is extremely illogical to agree with rolken every time -just- because of his status as extremely intelligent. He makes mistakes, and you should critically examine things by yourself before coming ot a conclusion. Claiming that 'Rolken beats RPG', in spite of whatever point is being made, is a terrible thing to do.

4.) It was not the poll in and of itself that brought KS8 back to TSC. You think that the poll was the reason that he was unbanned. I can guarantee you that Mike didn't just look at the poll, ee the yes votes, and unban KS8 based on popular opinion.

What brought KS8 issues back into the mainstream and ultimately unbanned him was the heavy amount of attention he was getting. The poll was a part of that, but it wasn't the end means at all. RPG was correct in saying that yes votes on a poll don't unban people. They didn't unban KS8. Increased attention (leading to increased moderator analysis) brought KS8 back.